Developing a cruise control... can you answer a few questions for me?

[SmartieParts]

Hi folks.  I googled "Scion IQ forum" and this was the one that stood out, so I thought I'd start here.

First off, I am not an IQ owner.  I'm not even sure if they're available here yet (Canada).  I saw an ad for one for the first time today, and I noted how similar it looked to my Smart Fortwo.  I was intrigued so I started looking at the specifications and noticed that the IQ, just like the smart, failed to come with any form of cruise control either standard or as an option.

My company, SmartieParts, co-developed an aftermarket cruise control for the smart car that was very well received.  Many people have stated its one of the best cruise controls they've ever used in any car.  We made a few minor design mistakes, but considering it was my companies first major electronic automotive system, it was, by all measures, a success.  I always wondered if another car would come out without cruise, where we could apply that gained expertise.  Perhaps the IQ is it?  I don't know.

Some technical considerations exist.  Does anyone know (beyond guessing) the answer to these questions:

1) Is it drive-by-wire?  For those that don't know, that means that the accelerator pedal is NOT physically connected to the fuel/engine systems, but rather its just a specialized potentiometer that feeds electrical signals to the car's computer.  You can quickly identify this if there's nothing more than an electrical plug going to the pedal.

2) Is the pedal easily removed?  For the smart, one simply removed 4 bolts and the plug and that was it.

3) I'm sure the answer to this is "yes" given 2008 changes to US automotive regulations...  is there a standard OBD port in the driver cockpit and does anyone know if it is CANBUS  (again, I believe all 2008 and newer vehicles are required to use CANBUS so if you don't know... don't worry about it).

4) Is there interest?!?!  For the smart car, smart/Mercedes made the mistake of assuming that people would only ever drive their smarts in the city and never on longer routes.  They were wrong.  Smart car owners are rabid fans of their cars and utilize them in every situation a "normal" car would be.  I suspect IQ owners will be the same way.  Or maybe Toyota is right in leaving cruise off the feature/options list?


Cool car however you slice it!

 - Steven

[oldschool]

Steven,
I own an iQ...
I can get those answers and more if needed as I am a bit of a gear head...
List out the question needed answering and I'll get them to you...
I would love a cruise control for mine...

[SmartieParts]

We can start with the Q's already asked above.

I'm not exactly encouraged by the lack of response though

 - Steven

[oldschool]

No problem..
Give me a couple of days work schedule nuts right now,,,,
But, should not be a biggie

[oldschool]

Steven,
Yes its fly by wire, yes the pedal can be easily removed, yes it has a OBT port in the cockpit.
I can find out if its CANBUS....
If you give me your email address I will send you pictures....

[SmartieParts]

Its almost certainly CANBUS.  I'd appreciate pictures.  PM sent.  Cheers.

 - Steven

[SmartieParts]

Thanks for the photos sent via email.  That confirms that, in theory, a cruise control should be relatively simple for us to develop if there were interest.

Remaining problems/questions that need to be solved/answered:

• Is there interest?  The development costs will run likely around $50k.  Given that, and assuming the per unit production costs are similar to that of the smart car, are there ~500 to 1000 owners that would buy one at ~$400 to $500?  As a reference point, the smart car units sold for $480 each and we moved very close to 1000.  We had a lot higher development costs because we were doing everything from scratch.  If we took the IQ on, a lot of the work has already been done so the price should be closer to the $400 mark or even a bit less
• Can we get a car?  I haven't seen one of these in real life yet and our local Toyota dealer said they had no info as to when they'd be available here.
• Does anyone know the location of the car's ECU (computer) and how accessible it is?
• Where to put the controls?  And what type?  For the smart, what we did was replace a part of the window wiper control arm with one that incorporated a button on the end for cruise operations.  It wasn't too fancy but did the job and looked incredibly stock (which was very appreciated by many owners).  We were lucky in that the end of the wiper handle just popped off and the interior of the handle was hollow, making for easy routing of cables.  The simplest/cheapest option is to just put an off-the-shelf button(s) somewhere but then it won't look factory.  The best/most expensive option is to find an existing removal piece (like the wiper control arm or perhaps a portion of the steering wheel) that we can 3D laser scan and incorporate a factory-looking button into it and custom produce new parts.  But this is big $$$

It'd be really great if I could see a car in person.  Failing that, a ton of interior photos from various angles would be great.  As would a VERY close up of the accelerator pedal's plug (and a note of any markings/part numbers) and/or the pins inside the plug if they are reasonably easy to remove.

In general, to make the cruise work, we need to connect our "black box" to the accelerator pedal, to the CANBUS (that's easy), and to power (that's easy too), and then spend innumerable hours decoding the computer (that's hard... but is our specialty) and then figuring out an algorithm that keeps the car's speed steady (90% of that work was done with the smart car project)

If you know of anywhere else to post, on a different forum perhaps, to get more owners' eyes on this...

Cheers.

 - Steven

[oldschool]

Don't know where you at but my iQ is in the driveway in Mesa AZ...
I can take all the pictures you want...
I'll have the plug and any an all marking I can find or see tomorrow for you...

[SmartieParts]

I'm near Vancouver in Canada... so a ways off.  Looking forward to the photos.

[denisehan1]

I just found this webpage.  I am an IQ owner in Baytown, Texas.  My husband was very upset the IQ did not come with cruise control.  We would definitely be interested in one developed by your company.  There is interest for sure!!  Keep us posted!

[oldschool]

Thank for the info on the cruise control.....
But whats the web site?

[SmartieParts]

All I can say is... spread the word!  Get people here.  I'm rather shocked that there's so little interest.  For the smart car, we had over 100 people lined up before we did any dev work at all... and over 1000 people after it started to look real.

With 90% of the development already done, this should be easy.  But we simply can't do it for 5 or 6 HUNDRED, let alone just 5 or 6 individuals.

Does nobody own this car yet?  Is it really for city driving only?  That's what they said about the smart, but tons of people use them on the highways and just about EVERYONE wanted cruise.

I'm willing and able to get a cruise for the IQ, but serious interest has to be present.  Its a lot of money to get them produced (if you want it to look factory, anyway).

 - Steven

[denisehan1]

This car just recently came to our dealership in Texas.  I bought the very first IQ from this dealer in February, 2012!  The car has not even reached the East coast dealerships yet.  They started with California in November, 2011, and are working from west coast to east cost across the US.  Since it is so new, it will take a while to get cars sold and everyone talking about the lack of cruise control.  Be patient - I will spread the word and more and more people will want it.

[oldschool]

Yea, There slowly but surely making it across the US.
I have the first one in Phoenix AZ and I picked it up on January 21 2012.
Its a lonely world being the only species in the land.... Everybody points and asks "Is that the new smart car."...? And when you come back out to the car all the fore head prints on the side windows from people looking in the car...
Its interesting that it does not come with cruise control as every "expert" says one of the two most important things you can do to get the best mileage out of any car is to make sure the tire are inflated to its correct pressure and "use the cruise control"...
If Scion is after the SMART car for everything including its suppose to get better mileage then why wouldn't it have cruise control in it already? The other Scions models have it from the factory....
I spoke with the dealership I bought it from and said I would pay upwards of $500 for cruise control, a center consul and a self locking car jack alarm like in the other Scions....

[SmartieParts]

You're preaching to the choir man

It was the same story with the smart. Its made by Mercedes (for those in the know, yes I understand the differences so no need to correct me - just keeping it simple) and let me know if you can find any benz without a cruise!  The reality is that outside of North America, cruise control isn't a very popular or widely used device.  In North America, it is expected.  As stubborn as they are, the makers of these micro cars believe that nobody would be caught dead on a highway with all the huge trucks, etc and so cruise just isn't necessary.  I've got half a million dollars in sales on that one item that says they're wrong!

Had they included it from the factory on every unit, their cost would be roughly $35 higher.  That would probably make your IQ cost about $200 more than it does now.  As aftermarket, because we a) hit a much smaller percentage (Probably < 10% compared to 100% if they put it in all of them standard and b) have to retrofit... it ends up costing a lot more and the end user pays closer to $500.  Although, I do believe we can probably get it to IQ owners for less since the electronics design is virtually done.  I doubt there's much we'd have to change electrically to work with the IQ.  That's not to say there's not a ton to do!  The car's ECU would have to be decoded, the wiring figured out, and (most expensively) a custom switch manufactured.  But the core electronics, at least, is there.

But the word really needs to be spread.  We had very serious interest in our cruise for the smart over a year before the first car landed in the US.  The smart forums were WAY more active.  But I should mention, that this is the only forum I found where I was permitted to post.  So I have to depend on you guys to spread the word to other clubs/forums/etc.

 - Steven

ps.  In case you're curious, here's our smart cruise control and here's the installation instructions.

[denisehan1]

I just posted a link from Scion IQ Owners in Facebook to this blog.  Here is what I posted - should bring some interest to your company.

For those IQ owners who are interested in an after-market cruise control, a company called "Smarieparts" is looking for IQ owners who want them to develop cruise control for IQ like they did for the Smart Cars. Follow the link and give them your feedback. With enough interest they will develop one.


I added the link which will bring them here.  Hope this helps!

Denise

[SmartieParts]

That's what I'm talking about!  Stuff like that, we can't do.  So many sites (FB included) prohibit "Spamming" and for good reason!  I have to carefully plant the seed and hope it grows naturally.

Cheers.

[howelryan14]

Hey everyone! good forum!

[NiallMac]

The single biggest reservation I had about buying an IQ was lack of cruise control as an option. I would definitely be interested. Do not get too discouraged about lack of response .. there are not that many users here and not that many owners yet.

[Marlan]

You can add me to the list of people that would like cruise. I've had my IQ for about a month. Figured I would just use it for zipping around town and we would drive our new Forester when we found the need to cruise an interstate. As it is, we almost always take the IQ, Interstate or not. Two things missing from the IQ as far as I'm concerned. Cruise and a center armrest.  I'd be a happy buyer for both.